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Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:55 am**

Hi, David!
Hope this post finds you in a good mood!
Wouldn't it be a problem for you to write for us some example of a 7-band 250-word essay? Not 7.5 or higher.
Further, I'd like you to point at some mistakes/misspellings or simplifications that would turn it into 6.5 and further into 6 band essay? How many of them might be to still get 7? What kind of errors might be to still score 7? May one type of mistake be more or less significant than others when it comes to awarding band 7?

It's just because I suppose it is not enough to explain the difference with words like ".. .one of the key differences between Band 6 and 7 is that a 7 needs to have frequent sentences with no errors...", we really need explanation by giving an example!

P.S. Personal question: is it true that the difference between 6.5 and 7 is not so much as the examiners are afraid that their job would be scrutinized after putting each 7+ score? In other words: is difference between 7.5 and 8.0 score less than 6.5 and 7-band essays?

This question is quite popular as people with band 8-9 in Reading and Listening constantly get 6.5 in Writing, so I think the question deserves to be investigated more deeply!

Posted: **Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:50 am**

Hi Gelever,
Nice to hear from you again!
I have a friend who actually wrote some essays as if they were bands 5-7. I will see what I can find! (It may take a while!)
I think that the difference between 7.5 and 8 is much more challenging than from 6.5 to 7, particularly with regard to grammar. I can assure you that examiners are not afraid of giving band 7 because they think they might be more scrutinised. In fact, I know for sure that it is less likely than if they give 6.5!

All the best,
David

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:53 am**

Hi David!
Thank you for your consent to look into this question!
While you are looking out for a good example, I'd like to clarify what I am expecting to see.
Here is an example of 8-band essay from Cambridge IELTS 9 book:
Some believe that unpaid community service should be a compulsory part of high school programmes. Do you agree or disagree?

It has been suggested that high school students should be involved in unpaid community services as a compulsory part of high school programmes. Most of the colleges are already providing opportunities to gain work experience, however these are not compulsory. In my opinion, sending students to work in community services is a good idea as it can provide them many lots of valuable skills.

Life skills are very important and by doing voluntary [1] work, students can learn how to communicate [2] with others and work in a team but also how to manage their time and improve their organisational skills. Nowadays, unfortunately, teenagers do not have many after-school activities. After-school clubs are no longer that popular and students mostly go home and sit in front of the TV, browse internet or play video games.

By giving them compulsory work activities with charitable or community organisations, they will be encouraged [3] to do something more creative. Skills gained through compulsory work will not only be an asset on their CV but also increase their employability. Students will also gain more respect towards work and money as they will realise that it is not that easy to earn and hopefully will learn to spend them in a more practical way.

Healthy life balance and exercise are strongly promoted by the NHS, and therefore any kind of spare time charity work will prevent from sitting and doing nothing. It could also possibly reduce the crime level in the high school age group. If students have activities to do, they will not be bored and come up silly ideas which can be dangerous for them or their surroundings.

In conclusion, I think this is a very good idea, and I hope this programme will be put into action for high schools/colleges shortly.

Let's swallow this is really an excellent 8-band essay, namely:
(only example, not real!!)
TR=9 (everything is hunky-dory)
CC= 8 (not 9 as here are few cohesive devices)
LR= 8 (not 9 as here are a lot of simple words like 'good idea', etc.)
GRA= 8 (not 9 as there are some minor mistakes, punctuation)
No penalties at all!
Provided all the band descriptors are equally important, we have the following:
Total Band=(9+8+8+8)/4=8.25=8

Now, let's intentionally spoil it to turn into 7-band essay!
Suppose, a student made 3 additional errors in spelling 1, 2, 3:
voluntary [1]-> voluntery
communicate [2]-> comunicate
encouraged [3] -> encauraged
That leads to GRA=6.0 and as a result
Total Band=(9+8+8+4.0)/4=7.25=7 Now it is 7 band essay!
Here I assumed that 3 silly grammatical mistakes had spoiled GRA from 8 to 4!!!??? Alright? I have no idea if it is correct, just speculate.

Ok, let's spoil it further to turn it into 6.5 band! Let's remove the 4th para, which would turn TR=6
Total Band=(6+8+8+4.0)/4=6.5=6.5 Now it is 6.5 band essay???

Ok, let's spoil it further to turn it into 6.0 band! Let's change the word 'employability' and put there 'ability to work' instead, which would turn LR=6
Total Band=(6+8+6+4.0)/4=6.0=6.0 Now it is 6.0 band essay???

All the calculations are only my guess, but I'd like David to provide us something real, with real calculations and real mistakes to demonstrate how one or a number of mistakes lower the final mark! I have just shown how I'd like to see the whole analysis

P.S. Original paper of the essay is attached below.

Posted: **Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:18 pm**

Hi

Very valid and interesting question.

I didn't think of this earlier.

However, IMO, it is not difficult for an examiner to grade an essay depending on its quality as a 5,6,7,8 or 9.
And depending on the errors you commit or if word count is less, you would be penalized 0.5 or 1 from that score

I think complex metrics of assessment are used only when you request for re verification..... But yes, it would be nice to know what exactly examiners look for.

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:07 pm**

Hi, drsid!
Yeah, the question is quite topical!
Band descriptors do not say almost anything!
All of them are still based on a subjective judgement!
How to distinguish TR of 6.5 band-essay from 9 band essay - is still a conundrum.
Or if a single mistake like , 'she have...' or 'Skills is..' is able to lower the total GRA from 9 to 4-5?
Or if a student can expect to get 7+ score, expressing ideas with no gorgeous sentences like this one:

On the social side, older children may become targets of envy from classmates, if they are perceived as having far more possessions than their peers.

by writing instead something like this:

However, older children who have a lot more toys to play with may make other pupils feel envy.

No idea!
This is exactly what I ask to be clarified!

Posted: **Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:47 pm**

Hi Gelever,
My analysis is based on my understanding of the rubrics as mentioned by Ryan IELTS series for band 8, so here it goes:
The starting sentence gives a background but the second sentence doesn't give any more detailed view of compulsory program . The 1st 2 sentences don't seem connected. Personally, starting with "It" is not a great Idea. The last sentence is grammatically incorrect - "many lots of.." : this can be rephrased as "lots of.." . Many as quantifier is not required. "In my opinion.." using personal pronoun doesn't sound academic at all. Rather you can say "It can be said that...."
2nd Para- Lots of grammatical mistakes. Usage of "Life skills.." is a nice point, but without an example it lacks the essence.Moreover it doesn't connect to the main topic of Community service.
3rd para-Your idea about respect for any kind of work/money is not very clear. Grammatical issues here too.
4th para- The start sentence should be an conclusion. You are trying to explain the conclusion in a round about manner...rephrasing it -Community service not only helps the whole society in general but it also helps the kids grow up physically fit and dandy.
The prediction is great but again the usage of personal pronoun "I..." can be avoided completely.Overall I fell this will easily fetch 6.5...If the grammatical mistakes are avoided I feel this can go up to 7.5 easily as the essay is having a proper structure .

This was my analysis on the 1st take and I am really aggrieved to see a Band 8 being awarded to such an essay. David please enlighten us to understand the writing rubrics in a better way...

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:16 pm**

Hi everyone!
Thank you, soura, for your detailed reply!
I wholly agree with you, however let me express some positive points about that 8-band essay:
I think there is something that the Ryan's essays either may lack or is not emphasized.
1) Grammatical analysis with the Grammarly revealed that there are only (2!) punctual mistakes. It is up to you whether trust or not this resource! This denotes that grammatical accuracy is appreciated greater than essay structure because the structure of main paragraphs here is strictly speaking weak!!
2) Here is one correctly written 2-d conditional sentence!

If students have activities to do, they will not be bored and come up silly ideas which can be dangerous for them or their surroundings.

Plus there are some complex sentences that are separated by comma.
3) Here, less common vocabulary is used. They use such collocations as : 'voluntary work', 'organisational skills', 'with charitable organisations', 'gain respect', 'a more practical way', 'healthy life balance', etc.
However, a student can learn them by heart and use in their own essay and thus receive some penalties! Here, penalties are not included into assessment, for sure!
Conclusion:
1) Examples are not as important as grammar;
2) Structure of paragraphs is not as important as grammar;
3) Using such simple words like 'fun', 'good' ('good idea' - twice!) is perfectly allowed to get band 8!
4) Using such conversational things like 'lots of' is OK to get band 8 for oyur writing!
5) You might be indefinitely penalized for almost everything, every learned by heart collocation or phrase, essay structure, or idea! And as a result, you might be confused for what you lost marks!?

Now, I'd like David to comment this conclusion and approve of refute all or some of the points..

Posted: **Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:41 pm**

This is a very poor example of marking. We've asked Cambridge for clarification.
TA could not be more than 5.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:40 am**

Thank you Jill, for your critique of that essay.
I'm looking forward to hearing the clarification from Cambridge too. I am expecting you to share their feedback in here. Apparently, they should not have confused us with such the poor example as many people consider this as a role model essay and have been trying to follow such the wrong example!
I think they will agree with you and change the band to 6 or 6.5 and change the teacher's feedback as paragraphing is totally weak there..
However, 7-band essay remains a ghost I have been trying to meet since the very beginning of my preparation in February. Everybody assures it exists, but nobody is able to provide a striking example! Even David says it will take a long while to find a 7-band essay.. Mystery.
Now I am even afraid asking about 7.5-band or 8-band essay)))

My verdict is that IELTS really lacks the transparency.

Posted: **Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:32 pm**

Dear All,
After much chasing, I have finally had a (very unsatisfactory) response from Cambridge:

Some believe that unpaid community service should be a compulsory part of high school programmes (for example, working for a charity, improving a neighbourhood or teaching sports to younger children). To what extent do you agree or disagree?

Published examiner’s comments: The answer addresses all parts of the prompt sufficiently, focusing on the benefits for students rather than society. A number of relevant, extended and supported ideas are used to produce a well-developed response to the question. However, some ideas, for example the reference to the crime level, are not fully extended.
My initial comment: The answer fails to address the prompt sufficiently. Does the candidate agree that unpaid community service should be a compulsory part of school programmes? The candidate seems confused as to voluntary work, community service, work experience and ‘work and money’.
Cambridge editorial team: I am afraid I don’t agree. It seems to me that she sees them as interlinked and this is clear through the development of ideas. You may disagree with this, but we can’t mark candidates down for having a different opinion.
My response: Obviously candidates cannot be marked down for having different views, but the question is about unpaid compulsory community service as part of school programmes, so regardless of whether she links voluntary work (which is, by nature, not compulsory), community service, work experience and work and money (which is then evidently not ‘unpaid’) in her mind or not, she must respond to the task as it is set. Her answer responds more to the examples than the task.
My initial comment: She obviously has some good ideas, but there is insufficient reference back to the question or they are too improperly developed for the task to have been sufficiently addressed. At most, this can be 7.
Cambridge editorial team: It has been marked above a Band 7 because she does not over generalise and the supporting ideas are extended upon with focus.
My response: My concern would be with the issue of relevance, noted in the band 8 descriptor, since she talks about spare time and after-school activities. One wonders whether it is actually a memorized essay on a slightly different topic.

Published examiner’s comments: The ideas are logically ordered and cohesion is consistently well-managed. Paragraphing is used appropriately, and progression between paragraphs is managed with some sophistication.
My initial comment: Paragraphing is poorly handled. The ideas and examples are not contained within appropriate paragraphs, and far from being ‘sophisticated’ progression is somewhat confusing. The introduction and conclusion are weak. 7 on the public rubric suggests that ‘there is a clear central topic’ in each paragraph, which is lacking here, while 6 says ‘uses paragraphing, but not always logically’which is more applicable to this example.
Cambridge editorial team: ?
Published examiner’s comments: A wide range of vocabulary is used to articulate meanings precisely, with skilful use of uncommon lexis, and very few inappropriacies.
My initial comment: The student’s essay is entirely within the first 3,000 words of the BNC-COCA, with the exception of charity and compulsory (from the prompt), browse and nowadays. How does this constitute a wide range of vocabulary? There is no ‘uncommon lexis’ in the essay, so on the public rubric it is hard to grade.
Cambridge editorial team: Despite a few mistakes, which have been highlighted she uses a wide range of collocations and the usage is flexible and approaching that of a native speaker. The lexis is appropriate for the task and more unusual vocab may come across as unnatural. I think that the use of collocates and the way words are put together are why she got an 8. The minor mistakes are why she would not have achieved a 9.
My response: Students look at the comment in the book ‘skilful use of uncommon lexis’ and cannot see it, so whether or not unusual vocabulary would come across as unnatural or not, they rely on the examiner’s comments on the page. It would be interesting to know what is regarded as ‘uncommon’ – the first 1,000 words in English, 2,000, 3,000? Also, what constitutes a ‘wide range of collocations’ - unusual collocates such as ‘respect towards’?

Published examiner’s comments: The range of grammatical structures used is also wide, with only minor errors.
My initial comment: There are only three error-free sentences, including the barely paraphrased opening statement. This does not constitute ‘the majority’ so GRA can be maximum 7.5.
Cambridge editorial team: ?

He also made comments on the essay itself (shown in red)

As this seems to suggest either that a) Cambridge made a mistake but cannot admit it, or b) the public band descriptors are meaningless. From experience, I think the former!

I await their response... again.

Posted: **Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:55 pm**

In summary, Cambridge people's way of thinking is 'Weak but not a mistake, stupid but grammatically correct, implausible but everything is OK with the grammar))

'
You can't beat them for the prowess of hedging and wriggling.
My next essay will be like:
'My name is Andreas. I am a good man. I live on the planet Earth. '
Waek? Yeah, but no mistakes)))

Shall mark him 8?

Now I understand why they do not return copies of writing papers to the exam takers and do not provide any comments. Every writing would become just solid controversy, were it more transparent)) BC would simply wallow in appeals of dissatisfied students...
Regretfully, we can do nothing but to accept their rules of play.

Posted: **Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:46 pm**

Hi Gelever
Unfortunately, yes, but still good to keep challenging them!
Teacher Jill

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